Please visit our website for more information on this topic.
We’re getting quoted for a cold weather ducted heat pump. I’m really confused about sizing and want to get some opinions before I have the contractors out so I am somewhat informed.ScubaHogg wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:26 am We did a remodel last winter. Our hvac guy, who we really like and has been in the business for 40 years, really loves the Bosch heat pumps. We had two installed for a two story, ’ sq ft home. A 5 ton and a 4 ton.Interesting.
So far they have been great and have had zero problem keeping the house comfortable. I did install a natural gas furnace back up that kicks in at 20f, but that’s cause I’m paranoid. I am quite certain I didn’t need to do that.
We live in the usda zone 7 btw.
BirderInTraining wrote: Mon Jun 03, 12:47 pmIf you get a unit with (if I remember correctly) a SEER of 18 or higher, and you owe federal taxes at the end of the year, you will get a $2,000 tax credityeah... I just went through the fed tax credit stuff, it's pretty annoying to figure out
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 am SizeI own the next hot stock- VTSAX
The space we need to heat and cool is around 2,800 sqft. For traditional AC, the online estimators said 5 ton unit. I looked at Mitsubishis ducted options, but it only goes up to 42,000 BTU and says “up to 2k sqft”. Many US homes are over 2k sqft these days, so are people using two heat pumps or are the Mitsubishi units only for smaller homes?
I plan to have the contractors run a manual J (if they will) but I’d like to go in with some idea of what to expect so I know if they’re full of it. I don’t want an oversized or undersized unit.
As was noted, the specifics of your home are why online calculators are good for ballpark but not final calcs. Mistu website shows hyper heat units up to 54k BTU
Brands
Aside from Mitsubishi, there are a ton of heat pump brands I’ve never heard of. Trane/Carrier/Lennox have heat pumps but they are harder to find info on. I’m skeptical about using cheap brands like Goodman, Rheem, “Mr. Cool,” or the myriad brands no one has heard of. How do you know what’s good and what’s not?
Nothing wrong with Mitsu, in cold climates I see them as in the lead. I bought one from your cheap brand list and installed it myself for cost issues.
Warranty
I was really impressed with the Bosch literature. We have Bosch appliances and have been very happy with durability so I trust the company. Their heat pumps have a 10 year warranty, which looks like it’s the longest in the business. Are their units any good? Any other units that have good warranties?
If you have a local HVAC person that deals with Bosch, they should be fine. You can ask them but I think they use the same compressor as the Mitsu.
Getting a heat pump is filled with potential pitfalls and misinformation. Contractors make it even more difficult to figure out what’s true/what’s correct because most of them seem to want to push you into a traditional unit.
I think a big part of that is lack of familiarity and that green products have been oversold in the past. OTOH, this is very old and established technology and there is no black box involved. It has just not been popular in the US until recently.
z0r wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:37 am if you have natural gas available then do some math on electricity vs. gas cost. there are only a few parts of the country with cheap enough electricity to make heat pumps competitive at low temps (I live in one!) - yes, even cold climate heat pumps, the type that I have, which might have cop of 2-3 in the temps where a large fraction of your annual heating load takes place. most places, natural gas is cheaper below some cutoff temp like 40 F or so. up to you if the complexity of dual fuel makes sense vs. the savingsWhat's the best way to do this? I'd prefer to get a heat pump, but I don't necessarily want to pay more for it. Our electric rates in summer ranges from .12 to .32 per KWH depending on the time of day. In the winter its .12 to .20
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:47 pm Our electric prices seem to fluctuate a lot as well. It's hard to decide if a heat pump will be worth it since I think we have pretty cheap gas.The absolute "best" way is to have the option of running either/both so you can directly compare.
bombcar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:50 pmThat's a good point. No one in my area has a heat pump that I know about. The houses are newer so most are just at the point of needing new HVAC systems.NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:47 pm Our electric prices seem to fluctuate a lot as well. It's hard to decide if a heat pump will be worth it since I think we have pretty cheap gas.The absolute "best" way is to have the option of running either/both so you can directly compare.
The second best is to find a house as similar to yours that has a heat pump, and look at actual numbers.
The third best is to (assuming you have other things on gas and can't completely cancel service) do a summer/winter comparison between bills and get a "total heat spend" per year; the heat pump cannot save you more than that. If that number is too low to do it, just stop there.
If it's high enough that it seems it might be worthwhile, then continue investigating.
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:56 pm Interestingly, our summer bills are very similar to our winter bills, except that we pay more for electricity than gas in the summer and more for gas than electricity in the winter. Our furnace is UHE, but our A/C is builder grade crap that I'm almost certain is too small for the house, so I'm sure getting a larger capacity and higher SEER A/C unit would cut down on the electric bill substantially.Capacity for A/C is weird - you basically want it to run most of the time but not all of the time 95% of the time or something like that. If it only runs for short periods of time, it's oversized and will freeze up, if it runs flat out all the time (not just the hottest days) it will burn out.
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 am I was really impressed with the Bosch literature. We have Bosch appliances and have been very happy with durability so I trust the company. Their heat pumps have a 10 year warranty, which looks like it’s the longest in the business. Are their units any good?
WhyNotUs wrote: Mon Jun 03, 1:39 pm If you have a local HVAC person that deals with Bosch, they should be fine. You can ask them but I think they use the same compressor as the Mitsu.
hand wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:44 pm Midea is the manufacturer behind many of the mid-tier brands and does a fine job. ... Given the importance of the installer in the final system, I ended up with a Samsung (Midea) unit instead of my preferred hardware from Mitsubishi and have been happy with the operations (and the slightly reduced cost) through both hot and cold seasons.The Bosch IDS is manufactured by Midea. Bosch is popular in the Northeast, especially in the New York City area. The IDS has a good reputation for reliability.
bombcar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 3:18 pm Capacity for A/C is weird - you basically want it to run most of the time but not all of the time 95% of the time or something like that. If it only runs for short periods of time, it's oversized and will freeze up, if it runs flat out all the time (not just the hottest days) it will burn out.The OP is considering inverter units that can reduce capacity to match the load. The Bosch IDS (Inverter Ducted Split) even has "inverter" in the product name.
BirderInTraining wrote: Mon Jun 03, 12:47 pm The Japanese know a thing or two about heat pumps. The unit I got has "hyper heat" (not sure about the name of the feature). Basically, when it gets really cold outside it does not fire up electrical coils and blows air over them (super expensive supplemental heat). I don't understand the technology but the installer showed me the top of the air handler and pointed out that there are no coils because it does not need them.Hyper Heat is Mitsubishi's branding for vapor injection.
Link to LAILEY & COATES
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 2:47 pmI'm not aware of a quick calculator but here's the mathz0r wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:37 am if you have natural gas available then do some math on electricity vs. gas cost. there are only a few parts of the country with cheap enough electricity to make heat pumps competitive at low temps (I live in one!) - yes, even cold climate heat pumps, the type that I have, which might have cop of 2-3 in the temps where a large fraction of your annual heating load takes place. most places, natural gas is cheaper below some cutoff temp like 40 F or so. up to you if the complexity of dual fuel makes sense vs. the savingsWhat's the best way to do this? I'd prefer to get a heat pump, but I don't necessarily want to pay more for it. Our electric rates in summer ranges from .12 to .32 per KWH depending on the time of day. In the winter its .12 to .20
In our coldest month this past winter, we used 108 therms with our current ultra high efficiency gas furnace, tankless water heater, and gas range and and paid $111 in gas. It's hard to see what you're "truly" spending on gas because of all the random fees and charges that they tack on.
Our electric prices seem to fluctuate a lot as well. It's hard to decide if a heat pump will be worth it since I think we have pretty cheap gas. Even during our worst months, our combined electric and gas bill has never been higher than $175.
chet96 wrote: Mon Jun 03, 4:00 pm My experience only here. I had a Mitsubishi mini-split system installed in my office a few years back.The OP is looking at ducted heat pumps, not ductless.
It's an overhead cartridge, and it was dead quiet for about 3 years. However, the fan runs constantly. According to the installer, this is normal. It now clicks fairly loudly when it calls for heat. If this was in a bedroom, I would be pretty upset.
According to google anyway, it seems to be a common problem with the Mitsubishi head units. It may be worth asking about if you are installing in bedrooms.
talzara wrote: Mon Jun 03, 3:29 pmYes. An oversized unit for cooling isn't a big issue with an inverter unit (which is a variable speed compressor). In a traditional single stage a/c, you end up with short cycling and damp air (not enough humidity removal) if the a/c is oversized. Since a variable unit can run below its max capacity, it doesn't have as much of an issue with being oversized. That preserves capacity for when you want max heat (and don't want to have to resort to backup coils).bombcar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 3:18 pm Capacity for A/C is weird - you basically want it to run most of the time but not all of the time 95% of the time or something like that. If it only runs for short periods of time, it's oversized and will freeze up, if it runs flat out all the time (not just the hottest days) it will burn out.The OP is considering inverter units that can reduce capacity to match the load. The Bosch IDS (Inverter Ducted Split) even has "inverter" in the product name.
Cold-climate heat pumps use inverters because they are used in heating-dominated climates. Sizing the unit for heating will make it oversized for cooling. They have to be able to reduce their capacity in summer to match the load.
talzara wrote: Mon Jun 03, 4:14 pmSorry...I read ductless. Disregard.chet96 wrote: Mon Jun 03, 4:00 pm My experience only here. I had a Mitsubishi mini-split system installed in my office a few years back.The OP is looking at ducted heat pumps, not ductless.
It's an overhead cartridge, and it was dead quiet for about 3 years. However, the fan runs constantly. According to the installer, this is normal. It now clicks fairly loudly when it calls for heat. If this was in a bedroom, I would be pretty upset.
According to google anyway, it seems to be a common problem with the Mitsubishi head units. It may be worth asking about if you are installing in bedrooms.
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 amYou are far better off to get two smaller units than a single 5-ton:
Size
The space we need to heat and cool is around 2,800 sqft. For traditional AC, the online estimators said 5 ton unit. I looked at Mitsubishis ducted options, but it only goes up to 42,000 BTU and says “up to 2k sqft”. Many US homes are over 2k sqft these days, so are people using two heat pumps or are the Mitsubishi units only for smaller homes?
id0ntkn0wjack wrote: Mon Jun 03, 5:57 pmI think that would require a lot of work on the ducts. The house was built with a single unit, so I assume I’d have to cut drywall and redo the ductwork?NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 amYou are far better off to get two smaller units than a single 5-ton:
Size
The space we need to heat and cool is around 2,800 sqft. For traditional AC, the online estimators said 5 ton unit. I looked at Mitsubishis ducted options, but it only goes up to 42,000 BTU and says “up to 2k sqft”. Many US homes are over 2k sqft these days, so are people using two heat pumps or are the Mitsubishi units only for smaller homes?
https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/5-t ... ht-answer/
rockstar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:29 amI don't disagree with the Keep It Simple S, principle. Gas furnaces are not the best for the environment, but gas is mostly pretty cheap in North America (New England I think has some quite high gas prices).ScubaHogg wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:26 am We did a remodel last winter. Our hvac guy, who we really like and has been in the business for 40 years, really loves the Bosch heat pumps. We had two installed for a two story, ’ sq ft home. A 5 ton and a 4 ton.Interesting.
So far they have been great and have had zero problem keeping the house comfortable. I did install a natural gas furnace back up that kicks in at 20f, but that’s cause I’m paranoid. I am quite certain I didn’t need to do that.
We live in the usda zone 7 btw.
I talked to my buddy who has worked in HVAC for 20 years. He says he hates three things right now. First, heat pumps. Second, Carrier’s different blends of Freon. Third, smart thermostats. These all give him the most pain.
He basically told to me to stick with my gas furnace as long as I could, stick with the lowest SEER AC unit I could find, and he recommended only one smart thermostat worth getting. But the brand escapes me right now.
NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 am We’re getting quoted for a cold weather ducted heat pump. I’m really confused about sizing and want to get some opinions before I have the contractors out so I am somewhat informed.I spent a fair amount of time researching this but have no first hand experience with it. From everything I could read, Mitsubishi is sort of the gold standard, followed by Fujitsu (which doesnt have certified installers everywhere it seems) and Daikin. Bosch heat pumps sold in the US are made in China and I am not even sure they´re actually engineered/built by Bosch or just whitelabeled. What I read is that these Bosch´s arent that great and also surprisingly cheap.
Size
The space we need to heat and cool is around 2,800 sqft. For traditional AC, the online estimators said 5 ton unit. I looked at Mitsubishis ducted options, but it only goes up to 42,000 BTU and says “up to 2k sqft”. Many US homes are over 2k sqft these days, so are people using two heat pumps or are the Mitsubishi units only for smaller homes?
I plan to have the contractors run a manual J (if they will) but I’d like to go in with some idea of what to expect so I know if they’re full of it. I don’t want an oversized or undersized unit.
Brands
Aside from Mitsubishi, there are a ton of heat pump brands I’ve never heard of. Trane/Carrier/Lennox have heat pumps but they are harder to find info on. I’m skeptical about using cheap brands like Goodman, Rheem, “Mr. Cool,” or the myriad brands no one has heard of. How do you know what’s good and what’s not?
Warranty
I was really impressed with the Bosch literature. We have Bosch appliances and have been very happy with durability so I trust the company. Their heat pumps have a 10 year warranty, which looks like it’s the longest in the business. Are their units any good? Any other units that have good warranties?
Getting a heat pump is filled with potential pitfalls and misinformation. Contractors make it even more difficult to figure out what’s true/what’s correct because most of them seem to want to push you into a traditional unit.
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 04, 3:25 am1) I'd say the things that annoy an HVAC guy may not be the things that annoy the homeowner. For example, my Carrier smart thermostat required 30 minutes for program and setup, vs a "dumb" thermostat that would have been plug and play. If you install HVAC for a living, an extra 30 minutes after you are otherwise done with the job is a huge annoyance. But that's irrelevant if you are the customer.rockstar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:29 amI don't disagree with the Keep It Simple S, principle. Gas furnaces are not the best for the environment, but gas is mostly pretty cheap in North America (New England I think has some quite high gas prices).ScubaHogg wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:26 am We did a remodel last winter. Our hvac guy, who we really like and has been in the business for 40 years, really loves the Bosch heat pumps. We had two installed for a two story, ’ sq ft home. A 5 ton and a 4 ton.Interesting.
So far they have been great and have had zero problem keeping the house comfortable. I did install a natural gas furnace back up that kicks in at 20f, but that’s cause I’m paranoid. I am quite certain I didn’t need to do that.
We live in the usda zone 7 btw.
I talked to my buddy who has worked in HVAC for 20 years. He says he hates three things right now. First, heat pumps. Second, Carrier’s different blends of Freon. Third, smart thermostats. These all give him the most pain.
He basically told to me to stick with my gas furnace as long as I could, stick with the lowest SEER AC unit I could find, and he recommended only one smart thermostat worth getting. But the brand escapes me right now.
However I don't agree with lowest SEER AC:
- electricity is not cheap in many places (like New York/ New England) and increasingly is "tiered" by usage (California)
- summers are getting hotter. That's a consistent story I have from many friends and relations in the eastern half of North America. And I know people in Vancouver BC who happily lived without AC for decades. After the recent Heat Dome experiences, they are now installing it (also it can help filter out wildfire smoke). A more efficient AC won't have to work as hard in really hot temperatures and may keep you more comfortable.
(to give you an example. London England the average June-August temp is probably around 70 F. 2 summers ago, we managed over 100 for a couple of days. Tubes (subway trains) are not air conditioned generally. Office and cinema AC is not really up to the challenge. Very few homes would have air conditioning of any sort)).
- you are likely only going to do this once in the life of the home. So you want a degree of "future proofing" and that is what more energy efficient appliances do
So I would say SEER 15 at least. And SEER 18 possibly. Beyond that the incremental savings are probably not worth it.
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 04, 3:25 am I don't disagree with the Keep It Simple S, principle. Gas furnaces are not the best for the environment, but gas is mostly pretty cheap in North America (New England I think has some quite high gas prices).the low seer recommendation is likely to do with repairs and total cost of ownership. as you move beyond ~14 seer2/15 seer1 the machine typically has to add logic somewhere, increasing repair costs a lot. the 14 seer2 models are incredibly simple if you pull the panel and look inside - just a few relays, the start capacitor, almost nothing to them. they're so simple they can be repaired with generic (!) parts in many cases. machines with higher seer end up with little computers in them - more parts to fail, SOFTWARE, harder troubleshooting, no generic repairs
However I don't agree with lowest SEER AC:
- electricity is not cheap in many places (like New York/ New England) and increasingly is "tiered" by usage (California)
- summers are getting hotter. That's a consistent story I have from many friends and relations in the eastern half of North America. And I know people in Vancouver BC who happily lived without AC for decades. After the recent Heat Dome experiences, they are now installing it (also it can help filter out wildfire smoke). A more efficient AC won't have to work as hard in really hot temperatures and may keep you more comfortable.
(to give you an example. London England the average June-August temp is probably around 70 F. 2 summers ago, we managed over 100 for a couple of days. Tubes (subway trains) are not air conditioned generally. Office and cinema AC is not really up to the challenge. Very few homes would have air conditioning of any sort)).
- you are likely only going to do this once in the life of the home. So you want a degree of "future proofing" and that is what more energy efficient appliances do
So I would say SEER 15 at least. And SEER 18 possibly. Beyond that the incremental savings are probably not worth it.
Valuethinker wrote: Tue Jun 04, 3:25 amThe reason he gave me for going with the lowest SEER was to reduce maintenance costs. The higher the SEER, the more complex the unit, the more expensive the parts, and the harder it is to repair the unit. So he said I would end up paying more in the long run as the service plus parts would offset the energy savings.rockstar wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:29 amI don't disagree with the Keep It Simple S, principle. Gas furnaces are not the best for the environment, but gas is mostly pretty cheap in North America (New England I think has some quite high gas prices).ScubaHogg wrote: Mon Jun 03, 11:26 am We did a remodel last winter. Our hvac guy, who we really like and has been in the business for 40 years, really loves the Bosch heat pumps. We had two installed for a two story, ’ sq ft home. A 5 ton and a 4 ton.Interesting.
So far they have been great and have had zero problem keeping the house comfortable. I did install a natural gas furnace back up that kicks in at 20f, but that’s cause I’m paranoid. I am quite certain I didn’t need to do that.
We live in the usda zone 7 btw.
I talked to my buddy who has worked in HVAC for 20 years. He says he hates three things right now. First, heat pumps. Second, Carrier’s different blends of Freon. Third, smart thermostats. These all give him the most pain.
He basically told to me to stick with my gas furnace as long as I could, stick with the lowest SEER AC unit I could find, and he recommended only one smart thermostat worth getting. But the brand escapes me right now.
However I don't agree with lowest SEER AC:
- electricity is not cheap in many places (like New York/ New England) and increasingly is "tiered" by usage (California)
- summers are getting hotter. That's a consistent story I have from many friends and relations in the eastern half of North America. And I know people in Vancouver BC who happily lived without AC for decades. After the recent Heat Dome experiences, they are now installing it (also it can help filter out wildfire smoke). A more efficient AC won't have to work as hard in really hot temperatures and may keep you more comfortable.
(to give you an example. London England the average June-August temp is probably around 70 F. 2 summers ago, we managed over 100 for a couple of days. Tubes (subway trains) are not air conditioned generally. Office and cinema AC is not really up to the challenge. Very few homes would have air conditioning of any sort)).
- you are likely only going to do this once in the life of the home. So you want a degree of "future proofing" and that is what more energy efficient appliances do
So I would say SEER 15 at least. And SEER 18 possibly. Beyond that the incremental savings are probably not worth it.
rockstar wrote: Tue Jun 04, 10:08 amJust lining up the 2 points (above & below, from different posters) it's probably reasonable to say that SEER 14/15 is a good compromise (I am out of date as to what the allowed minimum is in the USA now, in any case).
The reason he gave me for going with the lowest SEER was to reduce maintenance costs. The higher the SEER, the more complex the unit, the more expensive the parts, and the harder it is to repair the unit. So he said I would end up paying more in the long run as the service plus parts would offset the energy savings.
the low seer recommendation is likely to do with repairs and total cost of ownership. as you move beyond ~14 seer2/15 seer1 the machine typically has to add logic somewhere, increasing repair costs a lot. the 14 seer2 models are incredibly simple if you pull the panel and look inside - just a few relays, the start capacitor, almost nothing to them. they're so simple they can be repaired with generic (!) parts in many cases. machines with higher seer end up with little computers in them - more parts to fail, SOFTWARE, harder troubleshooting, no generic repairsMy understanding is the "Heat Dome" was humid as well as hot? Vancouver is a wet city, any time of year, so I am pretty sure they do a fairly humid heat, when it gets hot (London England is the same).
your point about balancing cost to own with energy cost is well taken
AC output ratings are normalized - all else being equal a 14 vs. 18 seer unit will have the same output, just a larger electricity input for the 14 seer
re: vancouver BC - in the pnw we're lucky in that summer humidity is NOT a concern and can be pretty much ignored for AC sizing purposes. oversizing AC is thus less of a problem than most parts of the country
bendix wrote: Tue Jun 04, 5:44 amMy (maybe wrong) understanding is that at the low end, all of the major HP manufacturers are using Chinese-made product.NYCaviator wrote: Mon Jun 03, 9:01 am We’re getting quoted for a cold weather ducted heat pump. I’m really confused about sizing and want to get some opinions before I have the contractors out so I am somewhat informed.I spent a fair amount of time researching this but have no first hand experience with it. From everything I could read, Mitsubishi is sort of the gold standard, followed by Fujitsu (which doesnt have certified installers everywhere it seems) and Daikin. Bosch heat pumps sold in the US are made in China and I am not even sure they´re actually engineered/built by Bosch or just whitelabeled. What I read is that these Bosch´s arent that great and also surprisingly cheap.
Size
The space we need to heat and cool is around 2,800 sqft. For traditional AC, the online estimators said 5 ton unit. I looked at Mitsubishis ducted options, but it only goes up to 42,000 BTU and says “up to 2k sqft”. Many US homes are over 2k sqft these days, so are people using two heat pumps or are the Mitsubishi units only for smaller homes?
I plan to have the contractors run a manual J (if they will) but I’d like to go in with some idea of what to expect so I know if they’re full of it. I don’t want an oversized or undersized unit.
Brands
Aside from Mitsubishi, there are a ton of heat pump brands I’ve never heard of. Trane/Carrier/Lennox have heat pumps but they are harder to find info on. I’m skeptical about using cheap brands like Goodman, Rheem, “Mr. Cool,” or the myriad brands no one has heard of. How do you know what’s good and what’s not?
Warranty
I was really impressed with the Bosch literature. We have Bosch appliances and have been very happy with durability so I trust the company. Their heat pumps have a 10 year warranty, which looks like it’s the longest in the business. Are their units any good? Any other units that have good warranties?
Getting a heat pump is filled with potential pitfalls and misinformation. Contractors make it even more difficult to figure out what’s true/what’s correct because most of them seem to want to push you into a traditional unit.
NYCaviator wrote: Tue Jun 04, 8:13 pm Thanks for all the replies. After doing more research, I'm leaning towards replacing with a traditional A/C and natural gas furnace at the highest SEER2 that I can get. I am all for the lower environmental impact (theoretically) of the heat pump, but I don't think the ducted technology is quite there yet in the US. The units cost more to install, I'm not sure I'll see any savings on the monthly bill based on our electric/gas prices, and getting parts/service could be a hassle when a lot of the HVAC companies don't have much experience with heat pumps. It seems like it could be more of a hassle at the end of the day.
BirderInTraining wrote: Mon Jun 03, 12:47 pm I live in zone 8. My house is about sq ft and has 3 ac/heat pump units (because of the unusual layout of the house). The house is 41 years old. The original units were Carrier. The first one to go was the one for the upstairs bedrooms. It quit after 27 years of excellent service with regular maintenance. The second one was replaced last August, after 40 years of service. I chose to replace it because it had a leak and the refrigerant it needed is now very expensive and I wanted a more efficient unit. The third unit is still going strong after 41 years. This is by way of saying that Carrier knows a thing or two about heat pumps. Though, the various contractors who came out to bid on the new unit last year all said "they don't make 'em like they used to anymore." But they were not selling Carrier.Did you install the dual fuel intelli-heat? Or was this just the mitsubishi air handler? If you went the intell-heat route I would love to hear your thoughts on it as i've been leaning that way when my r-22 trane says its had enough someday (hopefully never).
Because of size limitations of the "closet" that houses the air handler, the only unit that would fit was Mitsubishi. In the end, the contractor installed a unit from a new-ish venture between Trane and Mitsubishi Electric. (Moral of the story: google the model numbers they will provide on the bid to make sure you are getting what you think are getting.) Amazingly I went with the lowest bidder (they were highly recommended by a friend) who was offering to install what turned out to be the best equipment of all the bids. (Google the model numbers of all the bids you get and you will see what they retail for. It will give you a good idea of quality (it often correlates highly with price, but you know that already) and how much the installer is hoping to make in labor/profit.) Before you accept a bid look up the SEER numbers. If you get a unit with (if I remember correctly) a SEER of 18 or higher, and you owe federal taxes at the end of the year, you will get a $2,000 tax credit. I also had the unit inspected by my city and qualified for an $800 rebate. I did all the legwork for the rebate and tax credit; it was easy to do. The new unit is a 1.5 ton and I paid $9,015, before the rebate and tax credit. I am over the moon with the new unit. It is so quiet and works really well. We had a polar vortex in January and the unit performed flawlessly. I had bids of over $17K for far worse equipment, so be sure to talk to friends and get several bids.
The Japanese know a thing or two about heat pumps. The unit I got has "hyper heat" (not sure about the name of the feature). Basically, when it gets really cold outside it does not fire up electrical coils and blows air over them (super expensive supplemental heat). I don't understand the technology but the installer showed me the top of the air handler and pointed out that there are no coils because it does not need them.
Last, as others have mentioned before, do not install a larger unit than what is there already. It will cool the rooms too quickly and won't pull out enough humidity and you will always be uncomfortable. Good luck.
alfaspider wrote: Tue Jun 04, 12:26 pmGood points on electronics. Thank you.
I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that more complex electronics means more to go wrong. My Alfa Romeo has very simple electronics, but they are not very reliable. It's cheap to fix if you can DIY, but hunting down bad grounds and loose connectors is annoying and time consuming. It's expensive if you have to pay someone an hourly rate to do it. My Subaru has very complex electronics, but it's extremely reliable. Integrated circuits, computers, and software are "complex" but they fail a lot less often than a "simple" large capacitor. There are actually more electronic comments that might need replacing on the Alfa because there are more user-replaceable parts. If a modern ECU fails, you just replace the ECU. If an 80s ECU fails, you are probably getting out the multimeter and trying to replace individual bad components.
On the HVAC side, what kills electronics tends to be vibration and heat. A modern variable speed unit outputs a lot less of that. The real problem with the modern high-efficiency units is that the manufacturers grossly overcharge for them. For example, the Carrier smart thermostat is a $1,000 item if you need a replacement. Generic smart-thermostats are 1/5th that price. It's purely a case of Carrier overcharging for replacement parts rather than a fundamental aspect of a complex design. I also think early variable units gave variable units generally a bad name. New tech often has kinks that need to be worked out.
Contact us to discuss your requirements of China Heat Pump Manufacturer. Our experienced sales team can help you identify the options that best suit your needs.
Pdxnative wrote: Tue Jun 04, 9:36 pm I’m skeptical that there aren’t highly qualified heat pump installers in NYC, it’s just a matter of finding them. I know a ton of people with heat pumps and they’ve been very durable.Most of the installers I've talked to are very familiar with mini-split systems (which have been around for a long time) but are less familiar with the ducted systems. That's what my biggest concern is. I already have a ducted system, so I don't want to go mini-split.
ETA: we have a ducted system btw. I don’t agree at all with your comment that ducted heat pumps aren’t there yet in the US. The US *brands* have been slow but there are plenty of great cold climate HP options available in the US.